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Posts: 183
Sep 25 08 3:50 AM
weba, very interesting your conversation with the doctor in your family. I can understand that attitude. I must admit that there is a lot of dumb people (I don't say everyone is dumb and I do respect "less smart" people too, hehe, I exagerate when saying people are dumb somehow), and also there is a lot of people that freak about tiny problem or worry about something they do not have (but maybe they have real problem too, imagine if I am also one of those that judge them...). So after seeing so much of these kinds of patients, doctors get less emphatic, believe less, etc.
That is OK to be emotionless, or laugh about things. I often felt that way, but I do listen seriously (and maybe they do?). That is not OK when you are wrong about it and I think a lot of them think "they see on the internet and they freak out". Actually, maybe it is "I have a problem and I search for it". Personally, I do not worry about other things (even thought like I said, having a couple of bad problems is not a good sign of general health!) when it come to my floaters. I don't worry about going blind or what. I am annoyed by the floaters! The floaters are the problem!
If I compare floaters I saw back in December 2007 to now, they are very different. They were really a MEGA nightmare (and they are still very annoying, but it was terrific how big they were and how they were omnipresent). Most people experiencing that would go nuts!
But then, if I can see that major a difference. I can also imagine a major difference with people that have floaters that don't annoy them. I can even relate, I saw floaters younger and it was rarely and they were far from being that annoying (due to their limited time in my vision at once).
What is the most frustrating is when you get a "no it is not that" and if you insist; the person has no explanation instead of giving you benefice of doubt.
-----
Back to that attitude... I am someone that is usually very good with complex problems (the one people all do mistake) and I have a good capacity for understanding thing. And I usually learn very fast in new field and understand a bit further (always been that way) and these kind of skill can also apply to anything, medicine problems included. I do not say I know, but my logic skill can apply. The doctor that follow me for Crohn, he did not have to do much thing with real problem with my Crohn (he follow me since some years), but he does seem to take me seriously when I talked about some problem. He sent me to specialists and I do not remember if it was him, but I think he said if I wanted the result of something to just ask, etc. That is very nice and I felt he was that kind of doctor that took time and would try to refer me to someone for a problem. There is a lot of problems (like a lot of people) I don't complain but sometime I try to see what it is, but never found out, so I live with them. Maybe I should not and it lead to other problems.
In some part of the world, people have access to all their result. And in North-America at least, if I understand right, the attitude of a lot of doctors seem to be that it is better for the patient to not know. Great... be smart and if your patients are dumb, threat them like dumb. It won't help that person to evolve! But I must admit once again, it can be a pragmatic choice, but still it is not the right choice for long term. People that are smart, like you, might benefit from having the number, does his own research, etc.
About Mercury extraction, I read a lot of people talking about it. It proves nothing, but some people (doctor even) seem to be for it. And like you say there is research we read that come from authority doctors, etc. but in a 15 minutes session is laughed at because you are not a doctor. ;-)
Well I don't go in any clear directions here, but I think people here understand what we talk about. ;-)
Also, not everyone had 100% in all their tests at school. The same for all doctors. There is very good one and I am sure there is average, etc. No matter how they act. And I am not only talking about finding the problem, but their aptitude. It is one thing to not know, it is another thing to deny something you are not necessary right about. ;-)
I have a couple of doctor friends. One of them, she sometime talk about ridiculous patient situation. Yes, she is probably right most of the time. But there is time I don't agree and I just voice it (and it is about other people problem, I have not talked about my actual problems with her). I cannot say if everyone "gets it". But there is stuff in life that work most of the time in practice, but when you push the limit of your philosophy, etc. you get to understand more about "what is right" and you can then achieve thing other people cannot. For example that part about patient having access to their test result, etc. -- it is their body, it is their right to understand. And if the patient is smart, he might even help the Doctor! Of course if 99% of the people are not "that smart", the doctors will simply choose to threat 100% of the people with 1% of error. He might even be aware (or not) of it, but 1% is "acceptable". Still it is frustrating for people like us!
Anyway the problem with me, is that I don't persist and I am not bullish about going to see doctor till the problems is fixed, so basically I don't always go when I need even thought I believe it would be better for me to go often, persist, till I find someone who find the real physical cause of some problems! Else we have to find ourselves.
Also, sometime when you go see X doctors, you will get X different answers. That mean they are not all rights. ;-) But here I talk without much proof. But we know that doctors sometime "try" stuff without be 100% sure (and sometime it is alright, it is all a question of risk).
And for blood test, etc. it should be our right to ask them to be done. There is nothing wrong with asking the number. Some people do diet based on calorie, other on fat/carbohydrate/protein balance, other on other parameters. There is nothing wrong with wanting to evaluate these parameters. But a lot of doctors (NOT ALL!) will think you are a freak for wanting this. And what if those people that get their Mercury extracted are right? They will be laughed at till it is proven that they are right. I sure don't know, but I won't say it is a dumb thing too fast.
Human body is complex and they do not understand 100% of all inter-relation. If you look a complex system like this from only one dimension and ignore the other, you are sure to be blind about some root cause of some problem. You will only fix some sympton.
But then, they have 15-60 minutes to find the cause of your problem. That is not much if your problem is really complex!
Enough said. I wanted to just read tonight, but I end up typing again. ;-)
Sep 25 08 3:52 AM
Weba, about your doctrine "Learn everything, but don't completely trust anybody" -- it is also good to say "listen to everybody but take your own decisions" and there is nothing wrong with it. People often feel offended when you don't follow their advice. Like you were saying they are wrong or not. But it is more safe to be on your guard! Of course we will all gamble sometime without understanding everything, but when in doubt, verify. Also just measuring the number before or after (deficient OR NOT), will see if these number increase and if the increase of these number are correlated with changes in your body (floaters or something else).
Sep 25 08 3:57 AM
MrFloater: asteroid body... I wonder if that is related to what I see sometime in Dark... it happen really rarely, but sometime I see like a lot of dot going like a spaceship videogame you know. That doesn't bother me as it is rare, but I never noticed that kind of effect in the past except for the last year. I wonder if it is related to floaters or eye-related problems or I am just more aware of my eyes. ;-) -- I have always been very sensible to visual detail (and detail in general). So I won't have miss floaters or anything particular. I cannot reproduce this anytime I want like my floaters, maybe I have to find the trigger to it (maybe the way the light are, etc.).
Also about what you say about less stress, etc. --- why don't we try to do 100% the "right thing". I mean try to sleep really well and enough for one-two months. Avoid negative stress (stress is good, negative probably way less). Etc. -- Make everything to rest our eyes, etc. -- You see where I am going? ;-) As a treatment, maybe just try to do something for 1-2 months that are right for your overall body. Not only magical pills. In the past when I had problems (and time), I just took the time to relax till the problem went away. It helped a lot. The problem thought is that we don't have unlimited time to just "relax mentally".
Sorry, I won't think for now about other theories, sleepy and it makes some day I have not catch message on this forum ;-) -- but I will let everything I read in my brain and some day I might pull out something magic. But a 5% improvement doesn't mean everything especially that you mention other possible reason. But I guess you will see if there is real improvement in long term (related or not to silicium).
All I can relate is at beginning of the summer, it was terrible and some stuff happened in a week and I could enjoy a bit/lot more sport outside (it was at first depressive to be outside to the point it was bearable or even enjoyable!). I really await for winter to see if the situation changed, because that was the worst time for me last year. The morning, getting out the house and seeing these giant dark lines in my vision, I was like mega-down till I enter a bus or metro where I see these less. Man it sucks.
I guess white snow + sun does help to unveil all floaters in your eye! ;-) This is like white wall... I use to like simple thing and told myself, nothing wrong with white wall... now white wall are really something that doesn't help me in a lot of place.
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Nov 1 08 9:12 PM
BIG UPDATE
Haven´t done Bioptron light terapy yet. My life situation and geographical position at this moment is such that I really cannot make it happen properly, so I am still awaiting the right moment to start the 10-day Bioptron light therapy. I want to do it perfectly, exactly the same as described by user Smile at the other forum, with the exact same model of Bioptron lamp, the Bioptron 2. And I want a 100 % dedicated therapist. Don´t wanna blow this up. It´s too important.
Further update follows.
As before, I cannot report any progress after 4 months of regularly taking 2 capsules daily each containing:
Milk Thistle = Cardui mariae fructus = 126,6 mg (100 mg Silymarin) + Dandelion Root = Taraxaci radix = 30 mg
So, after reading this thread, "At last I discovered efficient method for floaters treatment":
http://floatertalk.yuku.com/topic/2402
2 WEEKS AGO I ADDED THE FOLLOWING TO MY DAILY DOSAGES:
1. Silicium (2/day): http://www.nihon.hr/hr/na.../super-silica-plus-3.html
Ingredients specs can be found here:
http://www.vitaminshoppe....sku_detail.jsp?id=KA-1857
Is this the right kind of silicium, I wonder? I could not find any other. When I asked about Silicium at the drugstore they pointed me to this. What is the difference between Silica and Silicium? Is there any difference between the two?
2. Vitamin B complex (1/day): http://www.nihon.hr/hr/na...rali/b-100-complex-4.html
http://vitanetonline.com/...amins/B-100-Complex-S-R-/
(scroll down to see the specs)
It contains all of the B vitamins (including the B2, also known as riboflavin)
3. Bilberry (1/day): http://www.nihon.hr/hr/na.../bilberry-i-lutein-2.html
http://www.allstarhealth....y-bilberry_and_lutein.htm
4. Magnesium (1/day): http://www.nihon.hr/hr/na...agnesium-one-daily-2.html
http://www.suzannes.com/kadama500mg6.html
Under number 5 you will soon see boosted dosages of milk thistle and dandelion root. I will soon exchange the firstly named milk thistle/dandelion root combo with this new one:
Milk Thistle from Solaray:
http://www.nihon.hr/hr/na...phytosome-sikavica-2.html
Even contains dandelion root, in the amount of 50 mg ( as opposed to what I am taking now = 30 mg)
Milk thistle amount in the new one is: 200 mg, with 80 % Silymarin (160 mg), as opposed to now = 126,6 mg milk thistle (100 mg Silymarin).
That is the strongest milk thistle + dandelion root combo I have found to date. I will be going over to it after I have used up the current milk thistle / dandelion root I am using.
IMPORTANT NOTE:
During the last two weeks, as I´ve elaborated on above, I have added Silicium, Vitamin B complex, Bilberry and Magnesium to my daily dosages. During these two weeks my floaters have deteriorated.
The cause is, I believe, riboflavin. It was present in the Supradyn, multivitamin which I started taking at the same time I got my first floaters. I suspected it to be the cause of my floaters since I have read this thread, "Riboflavin causes floaters":
http://floatertalk.yuku.com/topic/1700
You can see I even posted in that thread. However, the link was too weak, so I mostly forgot about it.
But now, two weeks after starting taking Vitamin B complex, which contains riboflavin (vitamin B 2), my floaters have gotten clearly worse for the first time since I´ve gotten them. So, I am thinking like this:
I had no floaters. I started taking Supradyn (multivitamin) 2-3 weeks before I noticed first floaters. Counted Supradyn multivitamin as a possible cause to my floaters. After reading the thread about riboflavin, suspected riboflavin specifically. Started taking milk thistle and dandelion root along with making lifestyle changes described earlier in this thread. No changes for 4 months. Not getting better, but not getting worse either. Started taking Silicium, Vitamin B complex, Bilberry and Magnesium. Two weeks later my floaters have gotten clearly worse. Vitamin B complex contains (B 2) riboflavin present in Vitamin B complex I have been taking. Don´t wanna jump to conclusions, but the suspicion right now is great enough that I have, as of today, stopped taking Vitamin B complex. Will not make the same mistake again. The cost for forgetting to watch out for riboflavin is new floaters. That cost is way too high and I am beating myself over the head for not thinking about it earlier.I should have checked for B2. Instead, I was only making sure that that specific vitamin B complex contained B1, B6 and B12, forgetting that B2 might be the cause of the floaters to begin with, overlooking it completely.
I feel that I must warn you about this. Think twice before you make the same mistake. Have you been taking tablets containing vitamin B 2, riboflavin, at the time you´ve got your first floaters? If so, I would watch before starting with vitamin B tablets again. Let my experience be a serious warning, until we are able to definitely tie riboflavin to floaters, as their cause, or one of the possible causes.
Have you had similar experience with riboflavin (vitamin B 2)? If so, please do tell about it here!
Do you recognize the above described pattern, perhaps went through it yourself? Please confirm the suspicions, let´s warn each other about these kind of coincidences, because they might not be coincidences. The only way to know about this at this moment is for YOU to write about it here as well, if you have experienced similar concurrences yourself. Think back, and please tell us about it here, if you stumble across something similar in your memory.
Thanks and good luck to you. Let´s continue helping each other help ourselves, untill the medical community comes to its senses regarding floaters.
These things are destroying my life, I tell you... We have got to find a way. Information, communication, joint research. Let´s continue with it.
Many good wishes to you and yours. =)
Johan
Nov 1 08 10:24 PM
Nov 1 08 11:01 PM